张建敏：中美过去靠“求同存异”走到一起，今天仍是如此

（编者按）1月24日，美国加州联邦俱乐部亚太事务主席卡利迪普博士，邀请中国驻旧金山总领事张建敏，就中美元首旧金山会晤、中美关系、加州角色、绿色发展、人文交流和旧金山APEC等话题，进行炉边对话。

张建敏指出，中美关系出现任何紧张情形，可能对全球经济带来至少2%的负增长。此时此刻，中美需要合作，来恢复全球经济增长。中国过去靠“求同存异”走到一起，今天仍是如此。

加州联邦俱乐部成立于1903年，是美国历史最悠久、规模最大的公共事务论坛之一。

北京对话和观察者网受权翻译和独家发布中文如下：

（翻译：李泽西，核译：韩桦）

**卡利迪普：**自古以来，中国就一直在世界历史上扮演着举足轻重的角色。自华夏文明于黄河边诞生以来，中国就一直吸引着世界的想象力。当代中国的崛起尤为惊人，在近代史上可谓绝无仅有：中国超过8亿人摆脱了贫困，这占全球原贫困人口的75%。1990年，中国75%的人口生活在农村地区；现在，75%的人生活在城市。

还有一个惊人的数字：在2010年至2013年间，中国浇筑的混凝土量比美国在整个20世纪浇筑的混凝土量还要多，这太不可思议了。除了建筑领域，中国在其他行业也取得惊人成就：正当加州在放弃对可再生能源的补贴时，中国却在向前推进，全球电动汽车50%的产能和市场都在中国，全球太阳能和风能50%的产能和市场也在中国。

然而，未来仍有挑战。中国正在摆脱长时间的新冠疫情封控后果，现在的问题是，这对中国经济产生了什么影响？与此同时，中国人口首次不增反减，人口正在老龄化，这又对中国产生怎样的影响？这些情况又将如何波及影响世界其他地区、美国和我们所在的加利福尼亚州？

因此，我们非常高兴和荣幸，张建敏大使同意向我们介绍，他认为中国将如何应对这些挑战。张大使，欢迎来到加州联邦俱乐部。请向我们介绍一下您自己，以及您是如何走到今天这一岗位的。

**张建敏：**谢谢你的热烈欢迎。也感谢现场和线上观看的加州联邦俱乐部会员们，感谢你们对中国和中国文化的关注。首先，请允许我向你们致以龙年春节的美好祝愿。这是一个非常吉祥的年份，希望它能给我们所有人带来好运。

就我本人而言，我担任中国驻旧金山总领事已有一年零八个月。在此之前，我在中国驻捷克大使任上工作了3年半。我于1990年加入中国外交部。1994年我首次到访美国。2009年至2011年，我在中国驻华盛顿大使馆工作过。

张建敏总领事与加州联邦俱乐部亚太事务主席卡利迪普举行炉边谈话 图自：中国驻旧金山总领事馆

在中国外交部工作期间，我有幸参加了许多重要的访问和讨论。因此，我希望自己能利用好这些经验，为促进中美两国，尤其是中国和加利福尼亚州之间的相互了解和友谊做好工作。

**卡利迪普：**在加州期间，有什么令你感到惊讶的吗？你对加州和西海岸有什么新认识？

**张建敏：**我感觉很幸运，因为美国西海岸与中国的来往与合作历史悠久。这里最近举办了亚太经合组织（APEC）峰会，有着如此优秀、勤劳的华人社区，为这一地区的繁荣做出了重要贡献。

自从我来到这里，加州和中国之间的合作交流让我深受鼓舞。例如，我们即将迎来龙年春节。2022年9月，纽森州长签署法律，将春节定为公共假日，这是美国第一个将春节定为公共假日的州。您刚才在开场白中提到了新冠疫情，纽森州长也是疫情过后第一位访华的美国州长，访问围绕气候变化。我认为他的访问非常成功。

美国西海岸曾举办过两届亚太经合组织峰会。第一届亚太经合组织峰会于1993年在西雅图举行，而去年，旧金山也非常成功地主办了亚太经合组织峰会；两次会议，中国国家主席都出席了。在旧金山，两国元首举行了一次非常成功的峰会，使人们对两国关系未来有了亟需的信心。

**卡利迪普：**让我们谈谈两国关系的未来。2024年是美中友好关系的第45个年头，期间并非一帆风顺。您如何看待中美关系的现状？

**张建敏：**正如你所说，今年是中美建交45周年，中美关系并非一帆风顺。但从总体上看，中美关系取得了重大进展，为两国人民带来了许多实实在在的福祉，也为全世界的和平、稳定与繁荣做出了贡献。我常常回想起1972年尼克松总统与基辛格博士的破冰之旅。在此期间，尼克松总统还访问了我的家乡—杭州，在那里进行了《上海公报》的大量谈判。事实上，《上海公报》是在杭州定稿并在上海签署的。杭州离上海不是很远。

我想补充的是，尼克松总统访问杭州时，代表美国送给杭州一些礼物—五棵红杉树苗。在过去50多年里，这些小树苗在杭州植物园和西湖边，长成了参天大树，这见证了中美关系在过去几十年中的演进：1979年中美正式建交时，双方几乎没有任何双边投资；但去年，双边投资规模达到2600亿美元。1979年，我们的贸易额不到25亿美元；而去年，这一数字已增至近7600亿美元。

因此，我们的关系几乎在各个方面都有紧密交织：文化交流、人员交流、经济交流。正如人言，中美现在作为两大经济体，任何一方都无法忽视另一方。

我认为，两国关系的进展是实实在在的。任何人带着客观公正的视角，都会认识到这种关系的进展对两国乃至全世界的积极影响。

世界上许多国家实际上也在关注中美关系的好坏，因为中美的互动之道也会影响到他们的生活和工作之道。这就是为什么人们如此高兴地看到两国领导人相互交谈，并在许多重要问题上达成重要共识。这次，两国领导人实际上就展开对话、进行更多交流等重大议题达成了一致。

中国领导人特别希望，美方与中方共同努力，确保两个大国能够好好相处。中方的建议是，作为两个大国，我们需要相互尊重、和平共处、合作共赢。我认为，合作是唯一的出路，有利于我们两国，也有利于全世界。

**卡利迪普：**国际货币基金组织IMF最近发布的报告称，两国关系中出现的任何紧张情形，都将影响全球经济。您对此有何看法？

**张建敏：**没错。这就是为什么人们如此关注中美关系紧张情形的原因。一旦中美关系出现紧张局势，这可能对全球经济增长带来2%的负面影响。十多年来，中国一直是世界经济增长的关键引擎，每年为全球经济的增长做出30%的贡献。

因此，如果中国和美国这两个主要经济体不合作，那么就会破坏供应链和产业链的稳定。此时此刻，我们需要这种合作来恢复全球经济增长，紧张局势实际上会给全人类带来灾难。

中国美国商会发布报告：半数在华美企将中国列为前三投资地 图自：中国美国商会

**卡利迪普：**尽管如此，美国人的担忧依然存在。事实上，芝加哥外交事务委员会（Chicago Council of Foreign Affairs）去年10月进行的一项民意调查显示，60%的美国人认为中国作为全球大国的崛起是对和平的威胁。您将如何消除这些担忧？

**张建敏：**我认为他们对中国文化、中国人民和中国政府的政策不够了解。在某种程度上，这可能是因为新冠疫情；过去三年里，双方的交流并不多，人们不再互相访问，因此造成了很多误解，没有足够的机会向对方解释自己的真实想法。在新冠疫情之前，我们每年有500万人次的互访，中美之间每周有300多架直飞航班飞越太平洋。因此，我们还有很多工作要做，以弥补新冠疫情造成的损失。当然，这其中也有其他因素在作祟。

在我看来，坦率地说，我认为这也与美国的所谓“政治正确”有很大关系。一些政客倾向于将一切问题政治化。因此，他们散布这些恐惧，进行无端和错误的指责。这就是为什么中国国家主席习近平最近在与美国总统拜登会谈时说，我们需要共同努力做几件事，首先就是树立正确认知。美国应将中国视为伙伴而非敌人，应将中国的发展视为机遇而非威胁。我们非常乐意与世界其他国家分享增长和繁荣带来的机遇。

你提到了中国在可再生能源、新能源汽车、太阳能等方面的进步。在中国上海，连续六年的每年11月，我们都邀请来自世界各地的人们，包括加利福尼亚州、旧金山湾区委员会的人们，参加进口博览会，这是世界上首次。我们希望利用中国的发展，与世界其他国家共享繁荣和发展机遇。

**卡利迪普：**让我们非常简短地谈谈亚太经合组织会议。首先，祝贺你组织参与了一次非常成功的亚太经合组织会议。你提到了习近平主席，他确定了与美国合作的五大支柱。APEC会议取得了什么样的成果？五大支柱包括了民间交流，你如何看待自己在促进这些合作支柱方面的作用？

**张建敏：**谢谢你提到五大支柱。我已经提到了第一条，即共同树立对彼此的正确认知。接下来是共同有效管理分歧，共同推进互利合作，共同承担大国的国际责任，以及共同促进人文交流。因此，我认为这是一项繁重的工作，一项艰巨的任务，但我很乐意尽我所能，履行中国总领事的职责。

人文交流至关重要。习近平主席在旧金山发表演讲时，邀请5万名美国青年在未来5年间访问中国。我认为，当你能亲眼看到并体验真实的中国，就能得出自己的结论，看看与新闻、报纸或政客对中国的描述是不同还是相符，这一点非常重要。

正如我所说，中国与美国有大量贸易往来。贸易基本上是互惠互利的，为消费者提供了更多选择，创造了就业机会，提高了生活水平。因此，合作共赢确实有助于稳定两国关系。

当今世界面临着许多紧迫的挑战：气候变化、疫情、地缘政治紧张局势等。中国和美国都是联合国安理会常任理事国，两国都应发挥作用，让世界变得更加美好。因此，我认为五大支柱确实非常重要。现在的当务之急是中美两国共同努力，落实两国总统达成的共识，而不是说一套做一套，那就可能会导致非常令人沮丧的挫折。

**卡利迪普：**加州和加州华人有着悠久的历史。事实上，有些人可能会说，加州就是在中国劳工的支持下建立起来的。大多数人不知道的是，中国是加州最大的贸易伙伴。您提到纽森州长访华，能否向我们介绍一下这次访问的情况、成果以及意义？

**张建敏：**纽森州长于10月率领气候变化代表团访问中国。他从香港开始行程，在那里发表了关于气候变化的演讲；随后，他访问了深圳，中国最早进行改革开放的城市之一。在那里，纽森州长参观了比亚迪的电动汽车和电动巴士。随后，他前往广州，与广州签署了气候变化合作协议。顺便提一下，加州与广东、江苏、内蒙古、四川都是友好省州。他此行期间还访问了上海、江苏。当然，他还访问了北京。

在北京，他还与许多同行举行了会议，并召开了气候变化研讨会。最重要的是，他与中国国家主席进行了会晤。习主席在会见纽森省长时说，两国关系的活力在地方。因此，中方欢迎纽森州长来访。中方愿加强地方政府层面的交流，即中美各省和各州之间，以及各县和各市之间的交流。

美国加州州长纽森去年10月访华

我觉得两国省州长和市长们关注的议题是一致的，因为在日常工作中，他们必须处理同样的问题：就业、环境、食品、住房。因此，我认为，如果我们能让两国省州长和市长们经常见面，那么你刚才提到的那种误解就会消失；也许不会完全消失，但不会阻碍推进互利合作的努力，毕竟分歧总是存在的。

尼克松访华时，中美两国存在巨大差异，但我们通过求同存异走到了一起。我认为今天仍是如此。

**卡利迪普：**就加州而言，中国1949年建国前，只有20%的人口受过教育，即四亿人口中的一亿，而现在这一比例接近百分之百。您认为，加州系大学的教育体系如何在推动教育交流中发挥作用？

**张建敏：**加州在教育领域实力雄厚。比如，你们有斯坦福大学、伯克利大学、加州大学戴维斯分校，还有许多其他优秀的大学。当我还是学生的时候，我的老师告诉我，如果你有一个苹果，我有一个苹果，我们交换苹果，最后我们还是只有两个苹果；但如果你有一个想法，我有一个想法，我们交换想法，就可以有更多的想法。我认为教育也是如此，人们走到一起，分享想法、交换意见、相互学习。中国学生也会赋能加州的课堂，因为他们会带来中国文化、中国思维方式、中国哲学，这都可以发挥作用，会给美国学生和其他国家的学生带来灵感。同时，这里的中国学生也会从其他文化背景的同龄人身上汲取灵感。

因此，我们希望看到更多的教育交流。但遗憾的是，我觉得由于政治正确，我们在这种交流中遇到了一些障碍。我们现在正在简化签证申请程序，致力于成为交流友好型总领馆，也就是说，我们是随时开放的。如果你遇到了问题，如果你需要帮助，我们随叫随到，办公室随时开门，满足你的需求，为你的签证申请提供便利。但对于在中国申请（赴美）签证的人来说，排队时间太长了。我们向公众承诺，将在4个工作日内为您提供签证，且无需提前预约。我们希望美方也能做得更多，以满足有意留学美国的学生的需求。

**卡利迪普：**让我们谈谈思想交流。很多听众可能不知道，正如张大使刚才提到的，世界上最大的电动汽车制造公司不是特斯拉，而是比亚迪。中国的独特之处在于，它控制着从钴矿开采到机器人制造电动汽车的整个供应链。中国曾经从加利福尼亚和美国学到了很多清洁能源的政策，这也是张大使最关注的话题之一。但现在情况发生了变化，学生变成了老师。加州能从中国的绿色政策中学到什么？

**张建敏：**我认为这是一个相互学习的过程。每一方都会带来自己独特的优势。我认为，如果我们有这种相互学习的积极态度，双方都会受益。

我们一直非常积极地提出绿色能源要求。例如，在海南省，所有汽车都必须是零排放的。因此，我认为在这一领域，相互学习的空间确实很大。

**卡利迪普：**现在让我们来谈谈气候变化的一些有趣的事实。1990年，中国农村每百户大约有两台冰箱，现在是90台。1990年，中国每100户家庭约有15台空调，现在是150台。这对电力消耗和温室气体排放带来了重大影响。美国和中国排放的温室气体合计占世界总量的40%以上。我已经谈了很多关于可再生能源、太阳能的问题，但中国60%的电力来自煤电厂也是事实，而且随着人口的不断增长，能源耗量还在增长。

从你的角度来看，鉴于你本人对气候变化问题的关注，你认为像中国这样的国家如何平衡现代化的需求？显然世界上其他国家会把中国视为处理这些问题的榜样。

**张建敏：**经济增长很重要，因为它直接关系到就业和人民的生活水平，但环境保护也很重要，而且越来越重要，如何平衡两者确实是一项艰巨的工作。

就中国而言，我们已经宣布了实现碳中和与碳达峰的目标。实际上，和其他工业化国家相比，中国实现同样目标所需的时间要短。

我引以为豪的是中国在降低单位GDP能耗方面的成绩。过去几年，中国经济大幅增长，但平均下来，在GDP年增长6%的情况下，中国能源消耗年均只增长约3%，这意味着我们正在以一种更加环保的方式增长。因此，我认为中国人民现在越来越意识到环境保护和气候变化的必要性。

当我回乡探亲和访问中国其他城市时，我注意到的最大变化之一就是环境，河里的水变得干净多了。我小时候在一条小河边长大，这条河是大运河的一支。那里离纺织厂很近，离造纸厂也很近，所以河水的颜色一直在变。当时，我对环境保护了解不多。尽管河水很臭，但我看到河水变色，觉得还挺浪漫。现在，我回到家乡，看到人们在河边钓鱼。所以这真是一个巨大的变化。

资料图：青海省海南藏族自治州生态光伏园 图源：IC photo

中国的全国人民代表大会将在每年3月举行年度会议，而省一级人代会通常在春节前开会，所以这几天，你可以看到中国各省都在召开省级人代会。近日，我在电视上看到福建省长重申，如果他发现某个经济发展项目与环境保护需要之间存在矛盾，他会优先考虑环保；如果他对该项目是否影响环境心里没底，那么他宁可不要该项目，也要保持良好的环境。我认为这反映了中国发展重点的变化、优先次序的变化。因此，尽管中国在环境保护方面仍有许多工作要做，但我们现在比以往任何时候都更有决心取得更好的平衡。

**卡利迪普：**我开头还提到了中国的人口问题。去年，中国人口首次不增反减。您认为这对中国经济有何影响？

**张建敏：**我有时会想想我儿子，他结婚后愿意生几个孩子？我有两个姐姐，而我妻子和我只有一个孩子。由于之前的政策，人口减少并不奇怪。现在，我们正在对政策进行调整，鼓励年轻夫妇多生，最好是两娃，三个更好。

然而，年轻人生育率低并不是中国独有的问题。我理解，年轻人的生活节奏很快，他们的工作或生活压力比我们或我父母那一代人更大。但是，尽管中国的人口在减少，我们仍然需要认识到，中国受教育的人口、有效劳动力和人才储备并没有真正减少那么多。因此，从总数量上看，中国人口确实在减少，但由于教育的进步，中国人才仍在增长。

当然，中国也出现了人口老龄化的趋势。例如，由于我和妻子在这里工作，我的妻妹作为一名教授也很忙，如何照顾我的岳母对我们来说就是一项艰巨的任务；我想其他中国家庭可能也面临着同样的困境。我们需要更多的养老设施，需要进一步发展中国的医疗服务，确保老有所养。我们也在学习其他国家的经验，这也可以成为中美对话、分享经验和相互学习的一个领域。这不仅是中国面临的挑战，也是许多其他国家面临的挑战。

**卡利迪普：**的确如此。事实上，张大使，最常被举例的是日本，它在20世纪90年代也经历了类似的过程。日本是否已经度过了这一阶段？你们从日本经验中学到了什么，日本是如何解决这个问题的，中国又可以如何解决这个问题？

**张建敏：**正如我所说，中国人口在老龄化。我刚才提到，我们需要更积极地发展养老设施，我们还需要做好社保，需要发展更多的保险。中国有“老有所养”的理念。因此，这不仅是政府的一项重要任务，也是普通公民的一项重要任务。

**卡利迪普：**中国正在由世界制造业中心向创新中心转型；有些人可能没有意识到这一点，他们的刻板印象是，美国做什么，中国就抄什么。但现在似乎也出现了相反的情况。

我举个例子，Facebook抄袭了微信：微信很早就推出了付费功能，Facebook在五年后也抄袭了微信，但没有人对此指手画脚。大家都熟悉TikTok，几年后Instagram推出了自己的TikTok。你提出了一个非常重要的观点，即人口正在老龄化，但受教育的人口数量仍在增长。他们如何在推进中国创新更上一层楼中发挥作用？

**张建敏：**中国人为我们历史上的创新而自豪：造纸技术、指南针、火药等等。当下，中国拥有40多万家高科技公司；中国的独角兽企业数量位居世界第二，创新在中国变得越来越普遍。过去几十年，中国经济持续增长，由于改革开放，我们曾有过超两位数的经济增速。而现在，经济规模已经变得如此之大，我们正在由注重体量的增长转向注重质量的增长。因此，我们必须依靠创新。中国得益于对外交流和开放。

同时，中国也在通过自己的创新为其他国家人民的福祉做出贡献。中国对知识产权的保护并不是因为其他国家希望我们这样做，实际上是出于我们自身的利益，我们必须执行知识产权法律法规，我们设立了知识产权法庭。中国的专利申请和版权保护案件的数量是非常鼓舞人心的。

加利福尼亚州在许多领域都是创新先锋。因此，对于中国年轻人来说，与美国同行一起工作，集思广益，互相汲取灵感，总是互惠互利的。

**卡利迪普：**在APEC亚太经合组织峰会上的一个话题是中国的“一带一路”倡议。您能向大家解释一下什么是“一带一路”倡议吗？

张建敏：“一带一路”倡议中的“一带”是中国与西部内陆国家的合作，此外还有“海上丝绸之路”。这一倡议已经提出了10年，获得了沿线国家的大力支持，大家共同创建了基础设施项目和生产项目，创造了就业机会，提高了沿线人民的生活水平。我们希望将“一带一路”打造为一项公共产品倡议，希望其他国家有机会借鉴中国的经验。我认为我们做得很好。

我们已经就“一带一路”倡议举行了多次峰会。由于这一倡议向所有国家开放，我们非常欢迎任何有兴趣的国家加入我们。

巴基斯坦瓜达尔港 图自：视觉中国

**卡利迪普：**中国在“一带一路”倡议中如何与加州的城市社区合作？其中是否有潜在的机会？

**张建敏：**我认为智慧城市是一个非常好的合作议题，加州和中国城市管理部门可以共同研究如何建造更节能的公寓等。我认为城市规划是一个非常重要的话题，有很多内容可以讨论，比如公共交通。人工智能也是每天都会出现在头条的话题，这也是各国人民、工程师和学生可以进行更多讨论的一个领域，因为人工智能发展得非常快，吸引了大量投资，具有革命性意义，肯定会影响我们生活的方方面面。

但如何对其进行管理？对AI进行适当的管理，以便我们能够最大化它的正面作用，并防范其潜在的风险和危险，我想这是每个人都在思考的问题。因此，这也可以是大家能共同努力的议题。

**卡利迪普：**接下来的问题需要用到您的外交技巧了。美国大选在即，不同的候选人会带来怎样的变化？在您所处的位置，您将如何应对这一局面？

**张建敏：**首先，这是美国的选举，我们不干涉他国内政。当然，中美关系非常重要，影响到我们所有人。因此，我们当然希望人们投票的是能有助于改善中美关系的人。让我感到高兴的是，回顾过去45年的中美关系，发展良好的中美关系是美国两党的共识。1972 年，是（共和党）尼克松总统访华打破了僵局，而正式建交的则是（民主党）卡特总统。从那时起，来自两党的历任总统都与中国领导人进行过交流。

两国建立稳定的合作关系符合两国人民和全世界人民的利益。我认为全世界都期待被选出的总统承担起责任，努力改善两国关系。

**卡利迪普：**您提到纽森州长对中国的访问，但这是建立在之前共和党州长访华的基础之上的。大家提出的一个问题是，您对加州与中国下一阶段的发展有何建议？

**张建敏：**我们有很多工作。比如，让我们从学生交往开始。习主席邀请五万名美国青年在未来五年内访问中国。我们相信，在这五万人中，加利福尼亚州将占很大比例。我们也希望加州和中国之间能有更多的直飞航班。旧金山湾区委员会每年都代表加州的企业在上海国际进口博览会运营加州馆。因此，我们希望旧金山湾区委员会也能做得更多，向中国介绍更多的美国产品和服务。

未来五年，中国将从世界各地进口总额达十七万亿美元的商品和服务。像中国这样一个不断增长的经济体的市场需求是巨大的，而随着生活水平的提高，中国人民也希望享受更多的纳帕谷葡萄酒、更多的新奇士橙子。因此，我认为我们可以扩大贸易，在气候变化方面推进更多的合作，共同应对这些紧迫的全球性挑战。

**卡利迪普：**加州对朝鲜军事实力的担忧与日俱增，加州人民认为他们就在朝鲜导弹射程之内。考虑到这对世界和平的影响，中国在确保安全方面能发挥什么样的作用，有何责任？

**张建敏：**朝鲜是一个主权国家，为自己的行为负责。中国和朝鲜是近邻，我们有着正常的友谊与合作，关系非常密切。因此，我们希望他们的经济能够增长，我们希望他们的人民能够享受美好的生活。

与此同时，由于朝鲜与一些国家之间的紧张关系，不时会出现事件和紧张局势。但对中国来说，我们始终呼吁和平解决争端，我们始终呼吁有关各方进行对话。我参与过六方会谈，从一开始是四方会谈时就曾参与。我们希望朝鲜半岛实现永久和平与稳定，但这需要每一个利益相关方的切实努力。因此，我们希望美国也能在这方面发挥更具建设性的作用，以稳定局势。

**卡利迪普：**对话开始时，你提到了人工智能的兴起，我们谈到了假新闻，你则提到了（媒体）渠道和政治环境，以及政治环境如何影响我们在美国获得的新闻。如果你是一名在场观众，你会看哪些信源来获取关于中国的准确信息？

**张建敏：**我当然会看中国自己的新闻。我们有许多优秀的新闻机构，如新华社、中国日报、人民日报、CGTN、中央电视台，它们现在都非常国际化。我也会参考一些可信的新闻机构。但最重要的是，你需要根据事实情况来核实你所读到的内容。有时你会看到假新闻，我们在CGTN有一个节目叫做“头条直击”，会揭露谬误。有些媒体会使用过时的图片，有些会用来自一个国家的图片来谈论另一个国家发生的事情，这非常具有误导性。我认为，人工智能被指责为“深伪技术”的罪魁祸首，这对我们所有人来说都是一个挑战。因此，如何共同努力，确保以负责任的方式使用人工智能，不让人工智能误导人们，是需要非常认真考虑的问题。

**卡利迪普：**湾区的许多人不习惯看到外交官。这里有不少华裔。您如何鼓励人们沿着您的足迹进入外交领域？

**张建敏：**作为一名外交官，为国效力是我的荣幸。在旧金山，每个人都以金门大桥为荣。外交实际上就是搭建桥梁，而不是设置壁垒。我们确实能解决问题，但我们是通过搭建桥梁、避免冲突、作出必要的妥协、增进相互理解来解决问题的。因此，我认为这是一份崇高的工作，没有什么比代表自己的国家更崇高的荣誉了，不仅为自己同胞的利益服务，还为地球上全人类的共同利益服务。

如果你不从事外交工作，有时当我们谈论世界和平稳定等宏大概念时，听起来是那么遥远和空洞，但如果你多年从事外交工作，那么你确实会感到自己肩负着沉重的责任，你的所作所为或多或少影响着世界的未来。我曾为领导人峰会担任过翻译。当我回首往事时，我总是觉得，作为促进两国和两国人民之间相互理解的桥梁，非常荣幸。

中美交流基金会组织今年首批美国大学生代表团访华 图自：中美交流基金会

其实，我回国后，经常会被我们的人事部门邀请去跟大学生们交流，跟他们分享我的故事，以及年轻人拥有一个通过外交来报效祖国、服务人类的梦想是多么重要。

我们需要更多的人加入。毕竟，无论人工智能如何进步，人们仍然需要依靠人类的智慧，我们仍然需要面对面的对话来解决问题，在互利互惠的事情上取得进展。

**卡利迪普：**最后一个问题，这将非常考验你的外交技巧：旧金山动物园怎么样才能获得几只大熊猫？你说过要搭建桥梁，要取得成果。

**张建敏：**习主席谈到了熊猫是如何受到美国人民，尤其是孩子们的喜爱。中国外交部长王毅已经宣布，熊猫将回到加州。我参观过旧金山动物园，那是一个非常漂亮的动物园，靠近海洋海滩。让我们拭目以待。我知道这里的市长、州长和副州长都非常希望看到熊猫回到加州。我也很期待看到这一切的发生。

**卡利迪普：**太好了。我们希望大使兑现承诺。

**张建敏：**我们共同努力。

**卡利迪普：**让我们感谢大使的光临，感谢他的慷慨，为我们提供了一场精彩的龙年盛宴。

以下为英文原文：

Kalidip Choudhury: China has always played an outsize role in the history of the world. Ever since its civilization began on the banks of the Huanghe River, China has been capturing the imagination as few countries have. But the rise of modern China is especially astonishing, it is without parallel in modern history. More than 800 million people have been lifted out of poverty, 75% of the world’s global poor. In 1990,75% of China lived in rural areas. Now, 75% are urban.

And here’s another astonishing number for you: between 2010 and 2013, more concrete was poured in China than in the entire 20th century of the United States. That’s a mind boggling number. But it’s not just concrete and steel alone. Just when California is backing away from a subsidy on renewable energy, China is now moving ahead. 50% of the world’s electrical cars are either manufactured or consumed in China, 50% of the world’s solar and wind energy is manufactured and consumed in China.

But there are challenges ahead. China is emerging from a long covid lockdown and the questions remain, what impact will that have on its economy? And for the first time, China’s population is contracting rather than expanding. It is an aging population. How will that affect China? And therefore, how will those ripples affect the rest of the world, affect the United States, and affect us here in California?

And so we are very pleased and honored that Ambassador Zhang Jianmin has agreed to join us onstage and present us his views on how China plans to address those challenges. Ambassador Zhang, welcome to the Commonwealth Club of America. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to this position.

Zhang Jianmin: Thank you, Khalidip, for your warm welcome. And thank you, members of Commonwealth Club, both here on site and online, for your interest in China and Chinese culture. Let me start by extending to you the best wishes for the Chinese New Year, the year of the Dragon. It’s a very auspicious year and hope it will bring all of us the best of luck and good fortune.

As far as myself is concerned, I’ve been in this job as Chinese Consul-General Based in San Francisco for one year and eight months now. And before that, I served as Chinese ambassador to the Czech Republic for three and a half years. I joined the Chinese Foreign Service in the year 1990. My first visit to this country was in 1994. I also served in the Chinese Embassy in DC from 2009 to 2011.

In my job working in the headquarters of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, I’ve had the good fortune of serving many important visits and discussions. So I hope I could put all these experience into good use and do a good job in promoting more mutual understanding and friendship between China and US as a whole, and in particular between China and California.

Kalidip Choudhury: Have there been any surprises? What have you learned about California, what have you learned about the West Coast during your time here?

Zhang Jianmin: I feel I’m very lucky because in the west coast, it has a longer history of exchanges and cooperation with China. It recently hosted APEC, and has such a wonderful, hard-working Chinese community, which made important contributions to prosperity of this part of America. Ever since I arrived, I’ve been very encouraged by the cooperation exchanges between California and China. For instance, we are about to celebrate the year of the Dragon, the Chinese Spring Festival. And in September 2022, Governor Newson signed into law that Spring Festival will be honored as a public holiday, being the first state to designate Spring Festival as a public holiday. And you mentioned the pandemic earlier in your opening remarks. Governor Newson was also the first US governor to visit China in the wake of the pandemic, with a focus on climate change. And I think the visit was a great success.

The west coast has served as the host city for two APECs. The first APEC took place in Seattle in 1993, and last year, San Francisco played very successful host to APEC; Chinese presidents came. The two presidents had a very successful summit, which gave people much needed confidence in the future of our relationship.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us talk about the future of your relationship. 2024 marks the 45th year of friendship between the United States and China. It has not been without its challenges. How do you perceive the current state of affairs with China, with the United States?

Zhang Jianmin: This year marks, as you said, the 45th anniversary of China US relationship. It has not been without challenges, ups and downs. But viewed as a whole, the relationship has made significant headway. It has brought lots of tangible benefits to the people of the two countries. It has also contributed to peace, stability and prosperity throughout the world. I often recall the ice breaking visit by President Nixon in 1972 together with Dr Kissinger. President Nixon also visited my hometown, Hangzhou, where much of the negotiation on Shanghai Communique was done. It was finished actually in Hangzhou, but signed in Shanghai, Hangzhou is not very far from Shanghai.

What I want to say is that when President Nixon visited Hangzhou, he gave Hangzhou some gifts on behalf of the United States. The gifts were five planted saplings of Redwood trees. Over the past five decades and more, the tiny saplings have grown into tall trees in the Botanic Garden and in the parks around the West Lake. I think this illustrates the evolution of China US relationship over the past decades. When we established formal diplomatic ties in 1979, there was hardly any mutual investment. But last year, two-way investment amounted to $260 billion. In 1979, our trade was less than $2.5 billion. And last year, the figure already increased to nearly $760 billion.

So our relationship has been intertwined in almost every aspect: cultural exchanges, people to people exchanges, economic exchanges. As someone told me, we are two major economies now. Neither can ignore the other side.

I think the progress of the relationship has been real. Anyone who has an objective view and fair-minded people would recognize the positive impacts of the progress of our relationship, to the two countries and to the whole world.

Many countries around the world actually are also concerned about the health of China US relationship. Because the way the two countries interact would also affect their way of life and work. So that’s the reason why people were so happy to see our two presidents talking to each other, reaching important consensus on so many important issues. This time, the two presidents actually agreed on having dialogue, having more exchanges are important subjects.

The Chinese president, in particular, wanted the US side to work together with China to make sure that the two major countries can get along well with each other. The Chinese proposal was and continues to be that as two major countries, we need to show mutual respect, we need to live together in peace and we need to engage in win-win cooperation. I think cooperation is the only way forward, for the benefit of our two countries and in the interest of the whole world.

Kalidip Choudhury: As you know, the IMF recently released a report that said any strains in the relationship will affect the global economy. Your thoughts on that?

Zhang Jianmin: Exactly. That’s also the reason why people are so concerned about tension in the relationship. Once there is tension in China US relationship, it could affect, I think, two percentage points of economic growth. For more than a decade, China has been a key engine of world economic growth. We have contributed to 30% of economic growth globally every year. So if China and the United States, as the two leading economies, are not cooperating with each other. then it would disrupt the stability in supply chain, in industrial chain. So just at the time when we need such cooperation to restore economic growth around the world, tension would actually bring about disaster for the whole humanity.

Kalidip Choudhury: But nevertheless, a fear persists here in America. And in fact, a poll conducted in last October by the Chicago Council of Foreign Affairs that said 60% of Americans feel that China’s rise as a global power is a threat to peace. How do you in your role address those concerns?

Zhang Jianmin: I think they don’t understand Chinese culture, Chinese people, Chinese government’s policy well enough. In part, it’s perhaps because of the covid pandemic; over the past three years, there were not much exchanges. People stopped visiting each other. So this has given rise to lots of mutual misunderstanding. People didn’t have enough opportunity to explain to each other what they really think. Before the pandemic, we had 5 million mutual visits every year, more than 300 direct flights per week across the Pacific between China and United States. So we have a lot of catch up work to do to make up for the losses caused by the pandemic, but there are also other factors at play.

To me, forgive my bluntness, I think this has also got a lot to do with political correctness in this country. Some politicians tend to politicize everything. So they’re spreading those kind of fear, and unwarranted and wrong accusations. That’s reason why when Chinese President Xi Jinping talked to President Joe Biden recently, he said that we need to work together to do several things. The very first one is to develop a correct perception of each other. China should be viewed as a partner rather than an enemy, and China’s development should be viewed as opportunity rather than a threat. We are more than happy to share with the rest of the world the opportunity of growth and prosperity.

You mentioned China’s progress in renewable energy, in zero emission cars, in solar energy, etc. For six years in a row in Shanghai, every November, China would invite people around the world, including from California, the Bay Area Council, to take part in the first ever Import expo, I don’t think other countries have ever done something like that. We want to take advantage of China’s growth to share in the prosperity and opportunity of growth with the rest of the world.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us touch on APEC very briefly, because first of all, congratulations to you for organizing a very successful APEC. And you mentioned President Xi Jinping. He had identified five pillars of cooperation with the United States. How did the APEC conference conclude? As for the five pillars of cooperation, which also includes people to people contact, how do you see your role in facilitating those pillars of cooperation?

Zhang Jianmin: Yes, thank you for mentioning the five pillars. I already mentioned the first one, that is to jointly develop a right perception of each other. Then it’s jointly manage the differences in an effective way, jointly advance mutually beneficial cooperation, jointly shoulder international responsibilities as major countries, and last but not least, jointly promote culture and people to people exchanges. So for me, I think this is a lot of work, a very demanding task, but I’m happy to do my best to fulfill my duty as the Chinese Consul-general.

People to people exchanges is of utmost importance. President Xi Jinping, in his speech during his stay in San Francisco extended an invitation to 50,000 American youths to visit China in the next five years. I think when you see China with your own eyes, it could give you exposure to the real China and you could make your own conclusion, how does your own observation differ from or match with the information you get from watching news, or reading some of the newspapers, or hearing the remarks from some politicians? So it’s very important.

And China is, as I said, doing a lot of trade with the United States. And trade basically is mutually beneficial, giving consumers more choice, creates jobs, improves living standards. So win-win cooperation is really something that can help stabilize the relationship.

And today’s world is confronted with so many urgent challenges: climate change, pandemic, geopolitical tensions. Both China and United States are permanent members of the UN Security Council. Both have a role to play in making the world a better place for all. So I think the five pillars are really very important. The priority now is for both China and United States, to work in concert to implement what the two presidents have agreed, rather than saying one thing but doing another. And then it could lead to very frustrating setbacks.

Kalidip Choudhury: California and the Chinese people have a very long history. In fact, some might argue that the California was built on the back of Chinese labor. What most people don’t know is that China is California’s largest trading partner. You mentioned that Governor Newsom had been to China. Could you tell us a little bit about that visit and what the outcomes were and what it means to the audience.

Zhang Jianmin: Governor Newson led climate change delegation to China in October. And he started his trip from Hong Kong, where he gave a talk on climate change. Then he visited Shenzhen, one of the first cities that opened up and conducted reform economically. There, Governor Newson visited the electric car, electric bus by BYD. He then went to Guangzhou where he signed agreement and climate change cooperation with Guangzhou. By the way, California enjoys sister state province relationship with Guangdong, with Jiangsu, with Inner Mongolia, with Sichuan. And he also visited Shanghai, visited Jiangsu. And he, of course, he visited Beijing.

In Beijing, he also had meetings with many counterparts to have a seminar on climate change. Most important of all, he had a meeting with Chinese President. President Xi in his meeting with Governor Newson said that the vigor and vitality of our relationship comes from sub-national exchanges. So China welcomes the visit by Governor Newson. And China is prepared to strengthen sub-national exchanges, meaning between the provinces and the states in the United States and between the counties and the cities.

I feel that the governors and mayors speak alike. Because in their everyday work, they have to deal with the same issue: jobs, environment, food, housing. So I think if we can enable the governors, the mayors of the two countries to meet each other often, then the kind of misunderstanding that you mentioned earlier could disappear; maybe not totally disappear, but will not stand in the way of efforts to advance mutually beneficial cooperation, because differences are always there.

When Nixon visits China, China and US were so different, but we were able to come together by finding common ground. I think this remains true today.

Kalidip Choudhury: Quick question, which is relevant to California, before the revolution in 1949, 20% of China’s population was educated, one hundred million out of four hundred million, now it’s close to a hundred percent. How can California’s university’s educational system play a role in helping with that educational exchange?

Zhang Jianmin: California is very strong in education. For instance, you have Stanford, you have Berkeley, you have UC Davis, you have many other wonderful universities. When I was a student, my teacher told me that, if you have an apple, I have an apple, we exchange, then still you have only two apples. If you have an idea, I have an idea, then we can have, you know, more ideas. So I think this is the same with education. If people can come together to share ideas, to compare notes and learn from each other, the Chinese students would also enrich the classroom here, because they will bring with them Chinese culture, Chinese way of thinking, Chinese philosophy, which might also prove useful, and give American students and students from other countries inspiration. At the same time, the Chinese students here would also draw inspiration from their peers from other cultures.

So we want to see more robust educational exchanges. But unfortunately, I feel that because of the political correctness, we have come across some obstacles in such exchanges. For one thing, we are simplifying visa application procedures. My office committed to be exchange friendly, meaning we are 24/7. You know, if you have an issue, if you request assistance, then we would open our office to meet your need and facilitate your visa application. But for the Chinese applicants in Beijing and other Chinese cities, the queue is too long. And now we promise to the public that will be able to give you visa in 4 working days, and no need for prior appointments. And we hope that the US side can also do more to meet the needs of the aspiring students.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us talk about the exchange of ideas, what many people in our audience might not be aware, as Ambassador Zhang just mentioned, the world’s largest electrical car manufacturing company is not Tesla, it’s BYD. And China is unique is that it controls the entire supply chain from cobalt mining to robots manufacturing electrical cars. It is also true that once upon a time, China learned, which is one of the ambassador’s favorite subjects, green policy; it learned a lot about green policy from California and from the United States. But now the table has switched. The student has now become the teacher. What can California learn from China and green policy?

Zhang Jianmin: I think that it’s a two-way learning process. Each will bring to the table its unique strength. And I think if we have this kind of positive learning from each other, this kind of positive attitude to learn from each other, both sides will benefit.

We have been very aggressive in imposing requirements on a green energy. So for instance, in Hainan province, all the cars have to be without emission. So I think in this field, there’s really a lot of room for mutual learning.

Kalidip Choudhury: Let us now talk about climate change and interesting facts. In 1990, there were about two refrigerators for every hundred households in rural China, and that number is now 90. In 1990, there were about 15 air conditioners for every 100 households in China. That number is now hundred and fifty. This has a severe effect on electricity consumption and on emission of greenhouse gases. The United States and China together emits more than 40% of the world’s greenhouse gases. I’ve talked a lot about renewable energy, solar energy, but it is also true that 60% of China’s electricity comes from coal plants and that is growing as it meets the demand of its ever growing population.

How do you see from your perspective, given your own passionate cause in climate change, how do you see a country like China balance the needs of a modernizing population? Because obviously the rest of the world will see China as an example in how China is dealing with these issues.

Zhang Jianmin: Economic growth is important, because it has a direct bearing on jobs and people’s living standards. But environmental Protection is also important and increasingly so. How to balance is really a demanding job.

As far as China’s concerned, we’ve announced our goals to achieve carbon neutrality and the carbon peak. Actually China spends less time than what it would take other industrialized countries to achieve the same target.

What I’m proud of is China’s track record in reducing per unit GDP energy consumption. For the past years, China’s economy has grown significantly. But for on average, for 6% of GDP growth, the energy consumption actually grew at only above 3%, meaning we are growing in a more environmental friendly way. So I think the Chinese people are now more and more aware of the needs of environmental protection and climate change.

When I go back to visit my hometown and visit other Chinese cities, actually one of the biggest change I’ve noticed is the environment. The water in the river has become much cleaner. When I grew up, when I was a little boy, I grew up near a small river, a tributary of the Grand Canal. It was very near to a textile mill and very close to papermaking factory. So the color of the water in the river kept changing. At that time, you know, I didn’t know much about environmental protection. Even though it smelled, I thought it was quite romantic to see the color change. But now when I go back, I saw people fishing, you know, in the same river. So this is really a very big change.

For the time being, China’s national parliament will have its annual session in March. At the provincial level, the provincial legislatures usually meet before the Spring Festival. So in these days, you can see that various provinces are having their provincial parliamentary session. And I tuned in TV one day and I heard one governor from Fujian reiterating their commitment, that if he finds there are contradiction between a certain project of economic development and the need of environmental protection, he would give more priority to environment. So if he couldn’t feel comfortable that the project will not hurt the environment, then he would rather not have the project and keep the environment in good shape. I think this reflects the change of focus, change of priority. So even though China still have a lot of work to do progressing in its environmental Protection endeavor, we are now more determined than ever to strike a better balance.

Kalidip Choudhury: I also started by talking about China’s population. For the first time in recorded history, China’s population is shrinking rather than expanding. How do you feel that this has an effect on China’s economy?

Zhang Jianmin: I sometimes think of my son, how many children would he be willing to have after he gets married? You know, I have two elder sisters, my wife and I，we have only one child. So it’s not surprising that the population is shrinking because of the policy over the past years. Now we are introducing readjustment to the policy, and we are encouraging the young couples to have more than just one, better two, three even better.

However, it’s not an issue exclusive to China that the young people are not that enthusiastic in having many children. I understand that they lead a fast-paced life, and they are working or living under more pressure than we or my parent’s generation. But still, even though China’s population is shrinking, we need to recognize that in terms of its educated population, it’s an effective workforce, it’s a pool of talents, it’s not really shrinking that much. So number-wise it’s shrinking, but talent wise, it’s still growing thanks to progress in education.

But of course, we are seeing the aging population. And for instance, because my wife and I are working here, and my sister-in-law, as a professor, is also very busy, how to take care of our mother-in-law is a demanding task for us; I think other Chinese households probably face the same dilemma. We need to develop more elderly care facilities. We need to further develop China’s medical service so that when people age, they can still be well taken care of. I think we are also learning from the experience of other countries. And this can also be an area where China and the US can have dialogue, share experience and learn from each other. It’s not just a challenge for China, it’s also a challenge for many other economies.

Kalidip Choudhury: It is. In fact, Ambassador Zhang, the example that is most usually thrown out is the example of Japan, which in the 1990s went through a similar process. And the question remain, has Japan advanced beyond that stage? So what have you learned from your studying of history is how Japan addresses that and how China can address that.

Zhang Jianmin: As I said, we see the population aging. I mentioned earlier that we need to develop more aggressively the elderly care facilities, and we also need to do a better job in Social security arrangements to develop more insurance. I think we in China have a philosophy of taking care of the elderly. So it’s a very important task for not just the government but also ordinary citizens.

Kalidip Choudhury: As China is making the transition from being the manufacturing center of the world to perhaps the center of innovation, I think there are some that might not be aware of this, because there’s a feeling that whatever the United States does, China copies. But now it seems that the reverse is also happening. And I’ll cite a couple of examples, that Facebook copied Wechat. Wechat very early on had a payment option for a session and Facebook copied that five years afterwards and no one raised an eyebrow. Everyone is familiar with TikTok, and obviously a few years later, Instagram came up with its own module for TikTok. You’ve raised a very good point on that the population may be aging, but more and more educated people are coming to the fore. How do they play in this innovative to drag China into the next century?

Zhang Jianmin: People in China are proud of their innovation in the past, paper making technology, the compass, the fireworks, etc. And today, China is home to more than 400,000 high tech companies. China has the second largest number of unicorns. So innovation is getting more and more prevalent in China. China enjoyed sustained economic growth over the past decades. We used to have double digit growth as a result of opening up and reform. And now the size of the economy has become already so big that we are making a shift from quantity focused growth to a quality focused growth. So we have to rely on innovation. China has benefited from exchanges and opening up with outside world.

And the same time, China is also making contribution to the well-being of people in other countries through our own innovation. Talking about intellectual property rights protection, it’s not because other countries want us to do this, it’s actually out of our own interests, we have to enforce intellectual property rights, laws and regulations. We have set up tribunals on intellectual property rights. So if you look at the number of application of patents, copyrights protection cases, the number is very encouraging.

Here, California, is a pioneer in innovation in a so many areas. So it’s always mutually beneficial for the Chinese young people in particular to work together with their American counterparts and have brainstorming and draw inspiration from each other.

Kalidip Choudhury: A subject that has come up, also at the APEC conference, is your belt and road initiative. Could you explain to the audience what the belt and road Initiative is?

Zhang Jianmin: The Belt and Road initiative is about China’s cooperation with the countries from the hinterland to the west, so that’s the belt part, and also on the sea, we have the maritime Silk Road. So this initiative has been there for 10 years, and it has actually drawn lots of support from countries along the routes. And together, they have created infrastructure projects, production projects, which create jobs and lift the living standards of the people along the routes. We want this Belt and Road Initiative to be a public good initiative. And we want to give the opportunity to other countries to use China’s experience for reference. And I think we’re doing a good job.

We have had several summit meetings about the Belt and Road initiative. And since this initiative is open to all, for anyone who is interested in joining, they are more than welcome to join us.

Kalidip Choudhury: How can China work in its belt and Road Initiative with perhaps some of the urban communities in California? Is there a potential opportunity for that?

Zhang Jianmin: I think smart city would be a very good topic where the urban dwellers and the Chinese city management can work together on how to build more energy saving apartments, for example. I think city planning is a very important subject and there’s so much to discuss, public transport, for instance. One subject that is in headline every day is artificial intelligence. I think this is also an area where people, engineers, students in different countries can have more discussion because artificial intelligence is growing very fast. It’s attracting so much investment and it’s revolutionary and it will definitely affect every aspect of our lives. But how can it be governed? How can they be properly managed so that we can maximize the positive impacts and prevent potential risks and dangers. I think this is on everybody’s mind. So this could also be a subject where people can work together on.

Kalidip Choudhury: I will now depend a lot on your diplomatic skills to answer the next question. Elections in the United States are coming up very shortly. How does the paths change with different candidates? How do you, in your position, address that?

Zhang Jianmin: First of all, for China, it’s your election and we don’t interfere in other countries’ domestic politics. Having said that, China US relationship is so important that it affects us all. So we certainly hope that people vote for someone who would contribute to a better China US relationship. And I think what makes me happy is that if you look back on the past 45 years of China US relationship, it has been the consensus of both parties to develop a good China US relationship. Nixon broke ice by visiting China in 1972. And it was the President Carter who formally established diplomatic ties. And since then, you’ve had presidents from both parties having exchanges with their Chinese counterparts.

It’s in the interests of people of the two countries and the people of the whole world for our two countries to have a stable and cooperative relationship. And I think the whole world expects responsibility from elected officials to work towards a better relationship.

Kalidip Choudhury: You mentioned Governor Newsom’s visit to China, but that was built on previous visits starting from Republican governors who have visited China to build up this. One of the questions from the audience is, what is your suggestion for the next stage of development between California and China?

Zhang Jianmin: I think we have a lot to do. For instance, let’s start with the student exchanges. President Xi invites 50,000 American young people to visit China in the next five years. And we believe California could account fo many out of the 50,000. And we also hope that there will be more direct flights between California and China. Bay Area Council, every year, runs the California Pavilion on behalf of the entities or businesses from California in the International Import Expo in Shanghai. So we hope that it can also do more to introduce more American products and services to China. In the next five years, China will import a total of seventeen trillion dollars of goods and services from the rest of the world. So the market demand from a growing economy like China’s is huge, and the Chinese people, as they improve their living standards, also want to enjoy more Napa Valley wine, more sunkist orange. So I think we can do more trade, and we can have more cooperation on climate change and work together on those pressing global challenges together.

Kalidip Choudhury: There’s an increasing concern in California about North Korea’s military might and people in California especially feel that they are within range of the missile program that North Korea has. What is China’s role, what is China’s responsibility in ensuring the safety, given how that affects peace in the world?

Zhang Jianmin: North Korea is a sovereign country. So it’s responsible for its own conduct. China and the DPRK are close neighbors and we have normal friendship and cooperation, very close ties. So we want their economy to grow, and we want their people to enjoy a good life.

At same time, you know, because of the tension between the DPRK and some other countries, you see incidents, you see tension emerge from time to time. But for us, we always call for a peaceful settlement of disputes. And we always call for dialogue between the parties concerned. I’ve been involved in, at the beginning, it was four party talks, then it was six party talks. We want to bring about permanent peace. And we want there to be peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula. But it depends on real efforts from each and every one of the stakeholders. So we hope that United States would also play a more constructive and helpful role in this regard to stabilize the situation.

Kalidip Choudhury: Early on when you first started, you mentioned the rise of artificial intelligence. We talked about potentially fake news. You also talked about getting access. You talked about the political environment and how that affects the news that we get here in America. If you were an audience member, what source would you rely on to get an accurate description on China?

Zhang Jianmin: Of course, I would rely on China’s own news. We have many good news agencies like Xinhua News Agency, China Daily, People’s Daily, CGTN, CCTV, they’re very international now. And I also draw on credible news agencies. But most important thing is you need to check what you read with the facts on the ground. Sometimes you do see fake news and we have one program in CGTN and actually it’s called headline busting. You know, it would expose the fallacies. Some correspondence use outdated pictures and some would use a picture of one country to talk about things happening in another country. And that could be very misleading. And artificial intelligence, which has been blamed for deepfakes, I think is a challenge for all of us. So how to work together to make sure that AI could be used in a responsible way, not to let AI be used in such a way that it will mislead people, misguide people is something that needs to be taken very seriously.

Kalidip Choudhury: Many people here in the Bay Area are not used to seeing people from the foreign service or the diplomatic service. There are quite a few people over here of Chinese origin. How do you encourage people to follow in your footpath to get in the foreign service, such as yourself.

Zhang Jianmin: It’s my honor to serve my country as a diplomat. Here in San Francisco, everyone is proud of the Golden Gate Bridge. And diplomacy is actually about building bridges rather than erecting barriers. We do solve problems. But we solve problems by building bridges, by avoiding conflicts, by making necessary compromise, through bringing about better mutual understanding. So I think it’s a noble job. There’s no higher honor than representing your country and serving not just the interests of your own countrymen, but also the common interests of the people on this planet. If you are not in foreign service, sometimes when you talk about some big jargons like world peace, stability, it sounds so distant and hollow. But if you have been engaged in diplomacy for years, then you do feel the sense that you shoulder the heavy responsibility, what you do one way or another does affect the future of the world. I’ve served in my job as interpreter between summit meetings. And when I look back, I always feel that, what an honor to serve as a bridge in a promoting mutual understanding between the two countries and between two peoples.

Actually, when I go back to China, I often get invited by our human resources department to talk to university students, to share with them my story and how it is important for the young people to have a dream of serving the country and serving mankind through a foreign service.

We need to have more people. After all, you know, no matter how advance AI get, people still need to rely on human intelligence, and we still need to have face to face dialogue to solve problems and to make progress on mutually beneficial things.

Kalidip Choudhury: So one last question, and this will severely test your diplomatic skills, is how does the San Francisco Zoo get access to a couple of pandas? You’ve talked about building bridges. You’ve talked about building results.

Zhang Jianmin: President Xi, in his remarks, talked about how pandas are loved by people in this country, especially the children. And Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has already announced that panda would be coming back to California. I’ve visited San Francisco Zoo. It’s a very nice zoo near Ocean Beach. So let’s wait and see. And I know the mayor and the governor and lieutenant governor are all very enthusiastic about getting panda back into California. So I’m also looking forward to seeing that happen.

Kalidip Choudhury: Wonderful. And we will hold the ambassador to his promise.

Zhang Jianmin: Let’s work together.

Kalidip Choudhury: We thank the ambassador for his presence, and thank him for his generosity for providing a wonderful feast outside to celebrate the year of the Dragon.

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