西方是从什么时候开始变得比东方更强大的？_风闻

【来源龙腾网】

正文原创翻译：

When did the West become more powerful than the East?

西方是从什么时候开始变得比东方更强大了的？

So after the fall of Rome, Europe was kind of lagging behind compared to contemporary civilizations in Asia like the Caliphates of Arabia and empires in China, right? And that went on for a while, but in the 19th century there are European armies colonizing everywhere they can reach with little trouble. So the West’’s military level must have skipped over that of the East at some point, but when was that specifically? And what would’’ve been the most proximate factors that lead to it?

在罗马沦陷后，欧洲与亚洲的当代文明相比有点落后，比如阿拉伯的哈里发和中国的帝国，对吗？这种情况持续了一段时间，但在19世纪，欧洲军队在他们可以到达的任何地方殖民，几乎没有遇上任何麻烦。因此，西方的军事水平肯定在某个时候超过了东方，但具体是什么时候？最相关的因素又是什么？

评论翻译

[dexed]

Probably during the industrial revolution.

可能是在工业革命期间。 0

Indo_Aryan_

Probably long before

At the Battle of Adyar about a few hundred French and their native soldiers routed an Indian army of 10,000

I think a better place to start would be whenever Ottoman armies started losing regularly to Western armies

可能在此很久以前就超过了

在阿迪亚尔战役中，大约几百名法国人和他们的本土士兵击败了一支一万人的印度军队

我认为一个显著的标志是是每当奥斯曼帝国军队开始经常输给西方军队的时候 0

Uschnej

army of 10,000

People regularly exaggerated the size of enemy forces.

I think a better place to start would be whenever Ottoman armies started losing regularly to Western armies

That would be the industrial revolution….

“1万人…”

人们经常会夸大敌军的规模。

“奥斯曼帝国军队…”

那就是工业革命的时候… 0

[dexed]

I would read Kenneth Pomeranz’’s book The Great Divergence. Pomeranz makes the compelling argument that it was the “western” powers’’ initial and then sustained exploitation of the resources found in the Americas that powered their rise to supremacy over the “east.”

我会建议你读肯尼斯·波美兰兹的书《大分流》。波美兰兹提出了一个令人信服的论点，即正是“西方”大国最初并随后持续地开发了在美洲发现的资源，推动了它们的崛起，使之超过了“东方。” 0

Minecraft_Cymmo

oh that’’s a nice approach

哦，这是个不错的观点 0

AgoraiosBum

Different powers at different time. For seafaring and navigation, it was in the 1500s, when European fleets could go around the world while Eastern fleets focused on trade in the Sea of Japan, China Sea, Indian Ocean, and Java Sea. The Dutch East India Company realized that this trade within the East could actually be very profitable, and became one of the richest companies in history by building shipyards in the East and trading among the east (and using the profits to buy spices and other goods to take back to Europe.

On land, the Mughal Empire and the Chinese (and Japanese) were still very powerful; for example Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb crushed the British East India Company in a short war that led to an apology, prostration before the throne, and payment of a large indemnity.

在不同的时间拥有不同的力量。对于航海和航行，大约是在1500年代，欧洲船队就已经可以环游世界，而东方船队则专注于日本海，中国海，印度洋和爪哇海的贸易。 荷兰东印度公司意识到，这种在东方的贸易实际上可能是非常有利可图的，于是通过在东方建造造船厂和在东方进行贸易，成为历史上最富有的公司之一（利用利润购买香料和其他商品带回欧洲）。

在陆地上，莫卧儿帝国和中国人（还有日本人）仍然非常强大。例如，莫卧儿皇帝奥朗则布在一场短暂的战争中击溃了英国东印度公司，导致英国进行道歉，在其王位前俯首称臣，并支付大量赔款。 0

But then internal decay beset the Mughals and Chinese; a series of civil wars broke Mughal power, and Delhi was conquered by the Marathas (and then sacked by an Afghan warlord), and by 1800, the British East India Company was the most significant force in India. China took longer to crack, but the two Opium Wars showed that China could not do much to protect its harbors and shipping, and after the massive and destructive Taiping Rebellion (which killed between 10 and 30 million) China was a broken power by the late 1860s.

Japan had stagnated since 1600, when it drove out the foreigners and limited foreign trade to Nagasaki with the Dutch; in the 1850s the US forced them to open to trade, which led to significant internal reforms that put them at the peer level of the West not long after.

The main factors were new developments in transport and artillery, accelerated by the industrial revolution, and the desires of international trade entities to open markets in these countries that was backed by national and nationalist sentiment.

但随后内部的衰败困扰着莫卧儿和中国人；一系列内战打断了莫卧儿的权力，德里被马拉塔斯征服（然后被阿富汗军阀取代），到了1800年，英国东印度公司已经是印度最强大的一支部队。中国用了更长的时间才崩溃，但两次鸦片战争表明中国在保护其港口和航运方面无能为力，在大规模破坏性的太平天国叛乱（杀害了1000万至3000万人）之后，中国在19世纪60年代后期已成为一个破碎的大国。

自从1600年驱逐外国人并限制与荷兰人到长崎的的对外贸易以来，日本就一直停滞不前。在1850年代，美国迫使他们开放贸易，这导致了日本重大的内部改革，不久之后，他们就已经可以与西方同行相提并论。

主要因素是工业革命加速了运输和火炮方面的新发展，以及国际贸易实体希望在这些得到了民族主义情绪的支持国家开放市场。 0

Indo_Aryan_

example Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb crushed the British East India Company in a short war that led to an apology, prostration before the throne, and payment of a large indemnity.

It is highly misleading to call the company’’s refusal to pay taxes a “short war” when it barely involved maybe a few hundred company officials at most, although clearly the situation wasn’’t as bad as 50 years later when about those numbers routed (technically) Mughal armies of tens of thousands

The Mughals at their best couldn’’t oust the Safavids, who were at best the equal of the Ottomans, who were not the equal of Britain or France by the early 18th c. The Mughals couldn’’t even oust the Portuguese from their holdings

Clearly wherever the split off occurred between the Islamic Powers and Western Powers, it was a long before the reign of Aurangzeb

“莫卧儿帝国皇帝奥朗则布在一场短暂的战争中击败了英国……”

将公司最多涉及到几百名官员拒绝纳的行为税称为“短期战争”是极具误导性的，虽然当时莫卧儿的情况显然没有50年后那么糟，那时同样是数百人，就（在技术上）击败了数万名莫卧儿军队。

莫卧儿人在他们最好的情况下都不能驱逐萨法维的军队（注：波斯王朝），后者充其量等于18世纪的奥斯曼人，而奥斯曼在18世纪初已不是和英国或法国平级的对手。

莫卧儿甚至不能将葡萄牙人从他们的地产中驱逐出去。显然，无论伊斯兰列强和西方列强之间的分裂发生在哪里，都是在里奥朗则布统治之前很长的一段时间内。 0