网友讨论：加州是一个在衰落的州吗?_风闻

【来源龙腾网】

评论原创翻译：

Is California a declining state?

网友讨论：加州是一个在衰落的州吗?

Mark Green

Mark in the Bay Area of California. So I will speak mostly about the bay area for the purpose of this answer.

I moved to Fremont in 1981 back when it was voted one of the top 10 best cities in the United States. Being here now going on 37 years I have to say that Fremont is no longer a great city. I consider it a shithole. In fact the entire Bay Area is IMO over-taxed, over-populated and completely over-run. California in general is a beautiful state with probably the best weather in the world. But that’s all that is really left unless you are RICH. And by rich I mean you gotta be making over 300k a year (SINGLE) to live here comfortably because you get taxed on EVERYTHING. And I mean everything! Gas, water, soda, alcohol, cigs, weed. Hell, some parts of the bay area are up near 10% on sales tax alone. I pay over $10,000 A YEAR in property taxes on a house that in most other states would cost 130k. I plan to sell my house to some poor sap . GET THE FUCK OUT of here to retire. To top that off, garbage, water, gas and electric just goes up and up and up. So to answer the original question, what happened to California and the quality if life? Absolutely nothing if you are rich and don’t mind being over crowded and over taxed. But the middle man just can’t afford to live here anymore. And I would certainly NEVER consider retiring in here. The state (like the bay area) is slowly squeezing out the middle class. That’s also why there is more homeless people than anywhere else in the world. So enjoy it Cali… Not sure how much more you can sustain with just wealth and the homeless.

在加利福尼亚的海湾地区打卡。我主要讲的就是旧金山湾区。

1981年，我搬到了弗里蒙特，当时它被评为美国十大最佳城市之一。在这里已经37年了，我不得不说弗里蒙特不再是一个伟大的城市。我认为这是个烂地方。事实上，整个旧金山湾区都被国际海事组织(IMO)征税过重、人口过剩、完全超负荷。总的来说，加州是一个美丽的州，可能是世界上天气最好的州。除非你很有钱，否则就只剩下这些了。我说的富有是指你一年要挣30万以上(单身)才能在这里舒适地生活，因为你要对一切东西付税。我是说一切!汽油，水，苏打水，酒精，香烟，大麻。糟糕的是，湾区的一些地区仅销售税就上涨了近10%。我每年要为一所房子缴纳超过1万美元的财产税，而在其他大多数州，这房子才值13万美元。我打算把房子卖给一个可怜的蠢货。然后退休滚出这个地方。最糟糕的是，垃圾、水、煤气和电的价格不断上涨。那么，要回答最初的问题，加州发生了什么，生活质量如何?如果你很富有，不介意过度拥挤和过度征税，那就啥问题都没有。但是普通人是再也住不起了。我绝对不会考虑在这里退休。这个州(就像旧金山湾区一样)正在慢慢挤出中产阶级。这也是为什么这里无家可归的人比世界上任何地方都多的原因。所以好好享受吧，加州…不知道你还能靠这些钱和无家可归的人维持多少。

Pete Rope, Project Coordinator

Well I’’ve lived in California my whole life and I’’ll start with a brief story: In college I dated a girl from Omaha. When she came to my home town she kept mentioning how great it smelled. I didn’’t know what she was talking about. Then I visited her home town and it made sense. Everything smelled like shit.

I haven’’t noticed a drop in quality of life. I’’m doing great actually, things would be perfect if wasn’’t constantly reminded that we have a humiliating moron running the country. I think California is misrepresented for political reasons. So here’’s my take.

California isn’’t all beaches and cities. The central valley is some of the most productive farm land in the country. It also smells, and becomes a good forsaken inferno during the summer (and you can get a cheap mortgage there). But coastal California is amazing. Great weather (If you don’’t mind fog), everywhere you look is gorgeous. And it’’s terribly expensive. But housing is only that expensive because people want to live here. I just bought a hovel in CA for a price that would get a mcmansion in another state. But you get what you pay for and prices wouldn’’t be so high if it wasn’’t worth it. But in some of our cities, especially the bay area, prices have gotten out of control with the whole tech boom. Although as far as I’’m concerned all big cities suck. But the biggest cities in California mop the floor with some other states , and a cheap mortgage doesn’’t mean better quality of life.

我一生都住在加州，我先讲个小故事:大学时，我和一个来自奥马哈的女孩约会。当她来到我的家乡时，她总是提到加州的味道有多好。我不知道她在说什么。然后我去了她的家乡，这就说得通了，奥马哈所有东西闻起来都是屎一样。

我没有注意到生活质量有所下降。事实上我做得很好。如果不是不断提醒我们有一个丢脸的白痴在管理这个国家，事情就会完美了。我认为加州由于政治原因被歪曲了。这是我的看法。加州并不全是海滩和城市。加州中央的谷地是美国最多产的农田之一。它也有气味，在夏天变成了一个被遗弃的地狱(你可以在那里得到一个便宜的抵押贷款)。但是沿海的加利福尼亚就很棒了。天气很好(如果你不介意有雾的话)，你看到的每一个地方都是美丽的。就是特别贵。但房价之所以这么贵，只是因为人们都想住在这里。我刚在加州买了一间简陋的小房子，价钱相当于在另一个州买一栋豪宅。但是你得到了你想要的，如果不值得的话，价格也不会那么高。但在我们的一些城市，尤其是旧金山湾区，随着整个科技热潮，价格已经失控。在我看来，所有的大城市都很糟糕。但加州最大的城市与其他一些州差不多，而且便宜的抵押贷款并不意味着更好的生活质量。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：魏晋余孽 转载请注明出处

Cecelia Holland, Self Employed at Free Lance Writer (1965-present)

california hasn’t declined, it’s booming economically, and it’s the most diverse and the most advanced state in the country. i know the rest of the country thinks every sidewalk is smeared with feces, and it’s true that there are large homeless encampments, but these are problems, not signs of decline, and we’re working on the problems. the future here is doable. climate change won’t affect us as severely as it will places like texas, say, and the phenomenal public higher education system is a job creating engine that teaches people cutting edge skills. above all people here are mostly tolerant and open-minded, and that means adaptable.

we’re a favorite punching bag for conservatives. and where would you be without us? you’d have to pay attention to your own problems, which are very similar to ours, just smaller in scale.

加州并没有衰落，它的经济正在蓬勃发展，它是美国最多样化、最先进的州。我知道这个国家的其他地方认为加州每条人行道上都沾满了粪便，确实有很多无家可归者的营地，但这些问题不是衰退的迹象，我们也正在解决这些问题。这里的未来是可期的。气候变化对我们的影响不会像德克萨斯州那样严重，而优秀的公共高等教育系统是一个创造就业机会的引擎，它教会人们前沿的技能。最重要的是，这里的大多数人都是宽容和开放的，这意味着其适应性很强。

我们是保守派最喜欢攻击的对象。如果没有我们，你会在哪里?你们(保守党)得注意自己的问题，你们的问题和我们的很相似，只是规模小一些。

Jerald Cole, B.S., S.M. Chemistry, Chemical Engineering, SJSU, MIT (1982)

Politically, socially, and economically, we seem to be doing much better than the rest of the country as a whole. There are infrastructure issues in certain parts of the state. Our social structure leans toward New Testament Christian (and traditional Jewish) values. As a result we do attract a lot of homeless people from other states that have more Evangelical leanings. Educated folks who come here from other states tend not to leave unless there is a compelling financial reason to do so, such as retirement.

So, on the whole, no. We don’t seem to be in decline.

I travel a lot on business and see and experience a lot of the country. On the whole, the entire West Coast, the North East, and much of Texas seem to be doing quite well, comparatively.

在政治、社会和经济上，我们似乎比整个国家的其他地方做得好得多。加州某些地区存在基础设施问题。我们的社会结构倾向于新约基督教(和传统犹太教)的价值观。因此，我们吸引了许多来自其他州有更多福音派倾向的无家可归者。从其他州来到这里的受过教育的人一般不会离开，除非有令人信服的经济原因，比如退休。所以，总的来说，加州没有衰退。

我经常出差，见识了这个国家的很多地方。总的来说，相对而言，整个西海岸、东北部和德克萨斯州的大部分地区似乎做得相当不错。

原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：魏晋余孽 转载请注明出处

Mark Ravers, lives in California (1985-present)

No. California has been progressing every year. Economically, California has moved from the world’s 8th largest economy to the world’s 6th largest economy in the past 25 years, besting France and Brazil. Economists predict that CA will surpass the United Kingdom in 2018 to become the world’s 5th largest economy, so the state certainly is not declining.

CA has cutting edge businesses in industries that matter: technology and alternative energy, in addition to traditional industries like agriculture, fishing, building materials, and aerospace. CA also has its unique industries of tourism and Hollywood. I think most of the thinking about CA being in decline is from the late 1980s - early 1990s, but Silicon Valley helped reverse some of the problems and CA has remained the world leader in technology, which has resulted in the state encouraging new industry like alternative energy - all of which combined has proved to be a winning strategy for CA.

It concerns me when I hear politicians trying to rally support for industries like steel and coal, which are long gone. Other than a few thousand workers who want their old jobs, those industries don’t help the US. Bringing back steel is akin to bringing back wagon wheel manufacturing. We are working on new materials that are better than steel and the US can’t compete with steel made overseas with cheap labor - NOR SHOULD WE WANT TO. Those old labor jobs are replaced by better jobs that earn more money for both the business and the employees without risk of severe injury, which is extremely costly to businesses in lost time and workers’ compensation. We are much better off retraining those few thousand workers into industries that are cutting edge - like solar or electric cars. When American steel workers cost approx. $50/hour, we have no way of competing realistically with countries that pay their workers less than a dollar per hour

What is coming is just like the factory jobs that suddenly disappeared when robots took them in the 1980s, resulting in the rust-belt. Those jobs are going to go FAST - in 5–10 years, they will be dying off because the technology is here now. The government should be planning for this and sending out the alarm to people working in those industries that it s time to consider retraining or retiring because there is no way to keep those jobs and they need to move with the times. Instead, we are stuck with politicians who only care about today and pander to votes by keeping a few hundred jobs open here and there for a few more years, instead of facing facts and planning for tomorrow. This is another reason CA is not declining thanks to its pursuit of technology jobs and cutting-edge industries - the state has new industries for those workers to shift to that other states do not.

不。加州每年都在进步。在经济上，加州在过去的25年里已经从世界第8大经济体变成了世界第6大经济体，超过了法国和巴西。经济学家预测，加州将在2018年超过英国，成为世界第五大经济体，所以加州肯定没有衰落。

除了农业、渔业、建筑材料和航空航天等传统产业外，加州还在科技和替代能源等重要行业拥有前沿业务。加州也有其独特的旅游业和好莱坞。我认为大多数关于加州正在衰落的想法是在20世纪80年代末到90年代初产生的，但是硅谷帮助扭转了一些问题。加州一直是世界技术的领导者，这导致了国家鼓励像替代能源这样的新产业——所有这些结合起来被证明是加州的一个成功战略。

当我听到政客们试图为早已不复存在的钢铁和煤炭等行业争取支持时，我感到担忧。除了几千名希望保住老工作的工人以外，这些行业对美国没有任何帮助。把钢铁带回来，就像把车轮制造业带回来一样。我们正在开发比钢铁更好的新材料，而美国无法与拥有廉价劳动力的海外钢铁竞争——我们也不应该希望如此。那些旧的劳动工作被更好的工作所取代，这些工作可以为企业和员工带来更多的收入，而且没有严重工伤的风险，工伤对企业损失的时间和工人的补偿是极其昂贵的。对这几千名工人进行再培训，让他们进入太阳能或电动汽车等前沿行业，我们的情况会好得多。美国钢铁工人的成本大约是50美元/小时，我们没有办法与那些每小时工资低于1美元的国家竞争。

即将到来的情况就像上世纪80年代机器人占领工厂时一样，工厂里的工作突然消失，导致了铁锈区。这些工作将会很快消失——在5-10年内，它们就会消失，因为技术已经出现了。政府应该对此进行规划，并向那些在这些行业工作的人发出警告，是时候考虑重新培训或退休了，因为没有办法保住这些工作，他们需要与时俱进。相反，我们被困在那些只关心今天、为了迎合选票而到处保留几百个工作岗位、而不是面对事实和为明天做计划的政客们身上几年了。这是加州没有因为追求科技工作和前沿产业而衰落的另一个原因——加州有新的产业可以让那些工人转移到其他州没有的地方去。

Ernest W. Adams, lived in California

Hardly! California’s economy just surpassed that of the United Kingdom earlier this year, moving up from 6th largest in the world to 5th largest. It is a roaring success. It is also very forward-looking on environmental matters and has been ever since the 1970s, when it enacted some of the first pollution control laws. Its status as a center of high technology research means that it is far ahead of the rest of the country in implementing clean energy and similar programs.

几乎没有衰退！今年早些时候，加州的经济规模刚刚超过英国，从世界第6位上升到第5位。这是一个巨大的成功。它在环境问题上也很有远见，自1970年代以来一直如此，当时它颁布了第一批污染控制法律。它作为高科技研究中心的地位意味着它在实施清洁能源和类似项目方面远远领先于其他国家。